"From Florida to Oregon, utilities are racing to meet a surge in demand from power-hungry AI data centers, manufacturing facilities and electric vehicles."
"Electricity usage by data centers is poised to surge as much as ten times current levels by 2030."
Ten times. 😵 That's a lot.
#AI #ClimateChange #Climate #Environment #news #press #data #tech #technology
Nicole Parsons
in reply to Noelle :verified: • • •No wonder #KochNetwork and the Saudis are investing so heavily in AI; it's a strategy to keep the globe addicted to fossil fuels.
qz.com/saudi-arabia-ai-public-…
arabnews.com/node/2572046/saud…
businessinsider.com/saudi-arab…
bloomberg.com/news/articles/20…
cnbc.com/2024/09/13/saudi-arab…
bloomberg.com/news/articles/20…
politico.com/news/2024/01/25/c…
news.kochinc.com/news/2022/koc…
bizjournals.com/wichita/inno/s…
Saudi Arabia expects to get access to Nvidia's high performance chips 'within the next year'
Natasha Turak (CNBC)Dragon-sided D
in reply to Nicole Parsons • • •@Npars01 Sorry, that does not track with what the hyperscalars are actually doing. Training runs need high continuous base load and even coal doesn’t do that well.
In reality, GenAI requirements are turbocharging the drive to carbon-free nuclear
datacenterfrontier.com/cloud/a…
Oracle Hits Every Major Cloud via AWS, Reveals Plans for Gigawatt Triple SMR Data Center
Matt Vincent (Data Center Frontier)Nicole Parsons
in reply to Dragon-sided D • • •@dragonsidedd
Just what we need ...nuclear proliferation in the Middle East.
Trump was pushing for Saudi access to classified nuclear technology.
vanityfair.com/news/2019/03/tr…
theguardian.com/us-news/2019/f…
americanoversight.org/american…
reuters.com/article/world/us-s…
Trump Admin Weirdly Eager to Hand the Saudis Nuclear Secrets
Bess Levin (Vanity Fair)Nicole Parsons reshared this.
Dragon-sided D
in reply to Nicole Parsons • • •Jonathan Mesiano-Crookston
in reply to Nicole Parsons • • •Oh so that's what the money he got was for, at least in part.
Toni Aittoniemi
in reply to Dragon-sided D • • •@dragonsidedd @Npars01 nuclear is slow to build. Gas is what’s being built, because their return on investment works on the scales of political cycles a industry can support.
And your argument for continuous loads is partially false. Training runs for the mega-models do last for months, but between runs there is great variability. And that’s where gas shines.
powermag.com/industry-exec-dat…
Industry Exec: Data Centers Will Drive Demand for Natural Gas
Darrell Proctor (POWER Magazine)Crispy Branzino ☭
in reply to Toni Aittoniemi • • •nuclear is not only slow to build and mired in regulatory gates, but slow to roi. Profit does not manifest for sixteen *years* after the plants construction, fueling, and activation to to grid.
Overhead costs are enormous as well. Armed guards, safety crews, training etc...all add up.
Solar, wind and hydro offer turnkey profit in less than a year. Very attractive.
Dаn̈ıel Раršlow 🥧
in reply to Crispy Branzino ☭ • • •@Nimbius666 @gimulnautti @Npars01 @dragonsidedd
"Too cheap to meter" nuclear is just a few years away... and has been for 60 years now.
Nicole Parsons
in reply to Dаn̈ıel Раršlow 🥧 • • •@pieist @Nimbius666 @gimulnautti @dragonsidedd
Nuclear waste?
dw.com/en/germanys-dirty-secre…
bbc.com/news/articles/czx6e2x0…
Nuclear leaks?
bbc.com/news/articles/c7v6646l…
A nuclear version of Cancer Alley for where POC live?
freep.com/story/news/local/mic…
Radioactive food supplies?
aa.com.tr/en/asia-pacific/chin…
Illegal dumping?
desmog.com/2024/09/19/from-uk-…
What to do with the Columbia River once radiation from Hanford gets there?
mynorthwest.com/3989510/mayfie…
Thousands of tons of radioactive waste from atom bomb-making heading to Wayne County
, Detroit Free Press (Detroit Free Press)Nicole Parsons reshared this.
Crispy Branzino ☭
in reply to Nicole Parsons • • •the US also has a major waste issue. None of it is recycled, no state is willing to accept it, and most plants run a surplus of waste onsite.
To date there is no international consensus on how properly to label and warn a generation of humans 1000 years into the future of our waste pit hubris.
Dаn̈ıel Раršlow 🥧
in reply to Nicole Parsons • • •@Npars01 @Nimbius666 @gimulnautti @dragonsidedd
I live 2km from the Columbia, downstream of Hanford...
Extra_Special_Carbon
in reply to Nicole Parsons • • •@Npars01 @pieist @Nimbius666 @gimulnautti @dragonsidedd Nuclear waste isn’t as difficult a problem as people think. It can be buried deep enough that only a modern nation state could get near it, and if they do, by nearly astronomical odds, stumble on it, the tomb would be so conspicuous only fools wouldn’t check for all forms of safety.
The waste problem is entirely political.
Extra_Special_Carbon
in reply to Extra_Special_Carbon • • •Extra_Special_Carbon
in reply to Extra_Special_Carbon • • •Dragon-sided D
in reply to Extra_Special_Carbon • • •@Extra_Special_Carbon @Npars01 @pieist @Nimbius666 @gimulnautti
FWIW I am super bullish on high temperature superconductors for spherical tokamaks.
And a viable machine is coming online in <2 years
psfc.mit.edu/sparc
SPARC | Research | MIT Plasma Science and Fusion Center
www.psfc.mit.eduMagnus Ahltorp
in reply to Dragon-sided D • • •@dragonsidedd @Extra_Special_Carbon @Npars01 @pieist @Nimbius666 @gimulnautti Can we wait until a technology exists before we count on it?
Also, non-real-time computing does not require a fixed-power energy source. Things like nuclear is totally unnecessary for training tasks. Train when you have power. Pause the training when you don’t.
And nuclear is not a stable source of energy. France had to turn off nuclear because of too-hot rivers, and emergency shutdowns are common.
Dragon-sided D
in reply to Magnus Ahltorp • • •@ahltorp @Extra_Special_Carbon @Npars01 @pieist @Nimbius666 @gimulnautti
> Can we wait until a technology exists before we count on it?
You should learn about HTS. It is decades-old technology that has been gaining incrementally.
> nuclear is totally unnecessary for training tasks. Train when you have power. Pause the training when you don’t.
This would take orders of magnitude *more* power due to the save and read data required for suspend-and-restore.
Magnus Ahltorp
in reply to Dragon-sided D • • •@dragonsidedd @Extra_Special_Carbon @Npars01 @pieist @Nimbius666 @gimulnautti I was not referring to HTS, I was referring to fusion reactors. Once they a) work, and b) have been tested a while, then they are relevant. Before then it’s just wishful thinking, which is no basis for a system of government.
As for pausing, I recommend basic power management literature. This is not the forum for a detailed discussion. I would write a longer text, but: sealioning.
Dаn̈ıel Раršlow 🥧
in reply to Magnus Ahltorp • • •Speaking of which, if crocodiles are flourishing in French rivers thanks to nuclear power, just imagine how the sea lions must feel.
Nicole Parsons
in reply to Dаn̈ıel Раršlow 🥧 • • •The sea lions die of cancer from radioactive fish.
Dragon-sided D
in reply to Magnus Ahltorp • • •@ahltorp @Extra_Special_Carbon @Npars01 @pieist @Nimbius666 @gimulnautti
Honest question:
What is your explanation for why the professionals who specialize in data canter design are putting their careers and companies' investments on the line with this specific solution?
And why does "baseline power load" always factor so highly in the relevant proposals?
Nicole Parsons
in reply to Dragon-sided D • • •@dragonsidedd @ahltorp @Extra_Special_Carbon @pieist @Nimbius666 @gimulnautti
Simple answer?
Saudi Arabia wants to become a nuclear power and an AI superpower. To end democracy. To keep frying a planet.
The folks implementing AI are funded by the richest people on the planet.
abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-…
reuters.com/article/world/us-a…
nytimes.com/2024/04/25/technol…
nytimes.com/2024/09/25/us/poli…
And Republican billionaires are helping them do that. Ellison. Musk. Thiel.
aljazeera.com/news/2022/10/28/…
Saudis ‘second largest investors’ in Twitter after Musk takeover
Al JazeeraNicole Parsons reshared this.
Dragon-sided D
in reply to Nicole Parsons • • •@Npars01 @ahltorp @Extra_Special_Carbon @pieist @Nimbius666 @gimulnautti
I've been involved with data center planning in a large cloud company. Would you believe, Saudi Arabia's requirements have never come up, but base load considerations have.
Also if you want to "fry the planet", non-CO2-generating fission is counter to the end goal.
Fun fact: if your wastewater stream is hot, you are losing money and the executives probably want that to stop
Gatekeeper..Harris Walz
in reply to Nicole Parsons • • •Between their creep in crypto and AI, we had better put up guardrails. This is diabolical.