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"From Florida to Oregon, utilities are racing to meet a surge in demand from power-hungry AI data centers, manufacturing facilities and electric vehicles."

"Electricity usage by data centers is poised to surge as much as ten times current levels by 2030."

Ten times. 😵 That's a lot.

#AI #ClimateChange #Climate #Environment #news #press #data #tech #technology

finance.yahoo.com/news/ai-boom…

in reply to Nicole Parsons

@Npars01 Sorry, that does not track with what the hyperscalars are actually doing. Training runs need high continuous base load and even coal doesn’t do that well.

In reality, GenAI requirements are turbocharging the drive to carbon-free nuclear

datacenterfrontier.com/cloud/a…

in reply to Dragon-sided D

@dragonsidedd @Npars01 nuclear is slow to build. Gas is what’s being built, because their return on investment works on the scales of political cycles a industry can support.

And your argument for continuous loads is partially false. Training runs for the mega-models do last for months, but between runs there is great variability. And that’s where gas shines.

powermag.com/industry-exec-dat…

in reply to Toni Aittoniemi

nuclear is not only slow to build and mired in regulatory gates, but slow to roi. Profit does not manifest for sixteen *years* after the plants construction, fueling, and activation to to grid.

Overhead costs are enormous as well. Armed guards, safety crews, training etc...all add up.

Solar, wind and hydro offer turnkey profit in less than a year. Very attractive.

in reply to Nicole Parsons

the US also has a major waste issue. None of it is recycled, no state is willing to accept it, and most plants run a surplus of waste onsite.

To date there is no international consensus on how properly to label and warn a generation of humans 1000 years into the future of our waste pit hubris.

in reply to Nicole Parsons

@Npars01 @pieist @Nimbius666 @gimulnautti @dragonsidedd Nuclear waste isn’t as difficult a problem as people think. It can be buried deep enough that only a modern nation state could get near it, and if they do, by nearly astronomical odds, stumble on it, the tomb would be so conspicuous only fools wouldn’t check for all forms of safety.

The waste problem is entirely political.

in reply to Extra_Special_Carbon

@Npars01 @pieist @Nimbius666 @gimulnautti @dragonsidedd That doesn’t solve the other issues. Our current nuclear energy strategy is an aging disaster. Solar, wind, and tidal are where we need to go right now. I don’t see the political will to rebuild our nuclear energy infrastructure coming any time soon.
in reply to Extra_Special_Carbon

@Npars01 @pieist @Nimbius666 @gimulnautti @dragonsidedd I’m neither pro nir anti nuclear. I think it could be done safely. It isn’t being done safely. It won’t be done safely any time soon, so we should move on until we get our act together.
in reply to Extra_Special_Carbon

@Extra_Special_Carbon @Npars01 @pieist @Nimbius666 @gimulnautti
FWIW I am super bullish on high temperature superconductors for spherical tokamaks.

And a viable machine is coming online in <2 years

psfc.mit.edu/sparc

in reply to Dragon-sided D

@dragonsidedd @Extra_Special_Carbon @Npars01 @pieist @Nimbius666 @gimulnautti Can we wait until a technology exists before we count on it?

Also, non-real-time computing does not require a fixed-power energy source. Things like nuclear is totally unnecessary for training tasks. Train when you have power. Pause the training when you don’t.

And nuclear is not a stable source of energy. France had to turn off nuclear because of too-hot rivers, and emergency shutdowns are common.

in reply to Magnus Ahltorp

@ahltorp @Extra_Special_Carbon @Npars01 @pieist @Nimbius666 @gimulnautti
> Can we wait until a technology exists before we count on it?

You should learn about HTS. It is decades-old technology that has been gaining incrementally.

> nuclear is totally unnecessary for training tasks. Train when you have power. Pause the training when you don’t.

This would take orders of magnitude *more* power due to the save and read data required for suspend-and-restore.

in reply to Dragon-sided D

@dragonsidedd @Extra_Special_Carbon @Npars01 @pieist @Nimbius666 @gimulnautti I was not referring to HTS, I was referring to fusion reactors. Once they a) work, and b) have been tested a while, then they are relevant. Before then it’s just wishful thinking, which is no basis for a system of government.

As for pausing, I recommend basic power management literature. This is not the forum for a detailed discussion. I would write a longer text, but: sealioning.

in reply to Magnus Ahltorp

@ahltorp @Extra_Special_Carbon @Npars01 @pieist @Nimbius666 @gimulnautti
Honest question:

What is your explanation for why the professionals who specialize in data canter design are putting their careers and companies' investments on the line with this specific solution?

And why does "baseline power load" always factor so highly in the relevant proposals?

in reply to Dragon-sided D

@dragonsidedd @ahltorp @Extra_Special_Carbon @pieist @Nimbius666 @gimulnautti
Simple answer?
Saudi Arabia wants to become a nuclear power and an AI superpower. To end democracy. To keep frying a planet.

The folks implementing AI are funded by the richest people on the planet.

abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-…

reuters.com/article/world/us-a…

nytimes.com/2024/04/25/technol…

nytimes.com/2024/09/25/us/poli…

And Republican billionaires are helping them do that. Ellison. Musk. Thiel.
aljazeera.com/news/2022/10/28/…

Nicole Parsons reshared this.

in reply to Nicole Parsons

@Npars01 @ahltorp @Extra_Special_Carbon @pieist @Nimbius666 @gimulnautti
I've been involved with data center planning in a large cloud company. Would you believe, Saudi Arabia's requirements have never come up, but base load considerations have.

Also if you want to "fry the planet", non-CO2-generating fission is counter to the end goal.

Fun fact: if your wastewater stream is hot, you are losing money and the executives probably want that to stop

in reply to Nicole Parsons

@Npars01
Between their creep in crypto and AI, we had better put up guardrails. This is diabolical.